My Tech SEO Story with Jamar Ramos

Episode Summary.

Jamar Ramos is a multichannel digital marketer and one of the founding partners of Crunchy Links.

With 10 years of experience. He has worked in-house and agency side, handling Social Media, SEO, and Content for clients in the FinTech, MedTech, cryptocurrency, hospitality, and eCommerce sectors.

In this episode, Jamar tells us his Tech SEO story. He also relates his experience with microaggression as a black man and how he handles it.

Guest Profile.

Jamar Ramos

✉️Name: Jamar Ramos

✉️What Jamar does: He is a multichannel digital marketer and one of the founding partners of Crunchy Links.

✉️Company: Crunchy Links.

✉️ Noteworthy: He has worked in-house and agency side, handling Social Media, SEO, and Content for clients in the FinTech, MedTech, cryptocurrency, hospitality, and eCommerce sectors.



Key Insights.

💡Career paths are not always straightforward.

Jamar’s story highlights the reality that many people’s career paths are not always linear. He studied creative writing in college but ended up working at a shoe store for several years before finding a job in SEO. This insight shows that there is no “right” or “wrong” way to navigate one’s career and that it’s okay to take detours and explore different paths before finding one’s passion.

💡Demand for certain skills may change over time.

Jamar’s experience with creative writing illustrates how the market demand for certain skills can change over time due to technological advancements. The democratization of writing through self-publishing platforms reduced the demand for traditional writers, leading Jamar to explore new job opportunities.

💡The importance of perseverance.

Jamar’s experience working at the shoe store taught him the importance of perseverance and getting through tough situations. This insight is important because it highlights the need for resilience and persistence, even when facing difficult circumstances.

💡The value of transferable skills.

Jamar’s ability to write and edit content, which he learned through his creative writing degree, proved to be valuable in his job in SEO. This insight demonstrates the importance of developing transferable skills that can be applied across different industries and job roles.

Episode Highlights

The importance of persistence in convincing stakeholders of a strategy’s value.

The conversation highlights the need for persistence in convincing stakeholders of the value of a strategy, especially when previous attempts have failed. It is essential to present the research and evidence to support the strategy and get stakeholders to understand the value it brings.


Challenges in transitioning from an agency to in-house work.

Transitioning from working in an agency with multiple websites and clients to working in-house on a single website can present its own set of challenges. Stakeholders may have competing interests, and getting things done can be challenging due to the involvement of multiple stakeholders.


The importance of educating others about SEO.

The conversation highlights that not everyone in an organization understands the importance of SEO. It is necessary to educate others about the benefits of SEO and how it contributes to the organization’s overall success.


Always be training.

The conversation emphasizes the importance of continually training oneself and others on SEO. It is essential to keep everyone informed of new developments in the field and how they can contribute to the organization’s success.


Challenges with toxic work environments.

The conversation highlights the challenges that come with working in a toxic work environment. Racism and other forms of discrimination can make it difficult to work and can even lead to job loss. It is essential to work in environments that prioritize a positive workplace culture and inclusivity.


The importance of taking breaks and not overworking oneself.

Jamar talks about how his job was taking a toll on his mental and physical health and caused a rash. He eventually quit the job after realizing how much it was affecting him. He also talks about the importance of setting boundaries, particularly when it comes to taking vacations. They emphasize that one should not work on their vacation and that work will be there when they get back.


Connect with Jamar;



Episode Transcriptions

Chima Mmeje 0:03

So I had Jamar, you closing us out for this for the season. So thank you for dinos Mahalo for joining us on the final episode of The Tech SUSD at least for the first cohorts thank you so much. Don’t have the cameras on briefly so Gemma can see your faces. Yeah. We don’t know sometimes it’s calculate replicate yourself. So at least now you know, when we can have our cameras you know, there are people that are still there listening behind. So this is this is the class.


Hello, class. How are you guys? Oh, thank you. Yeah, do you? Well, thank you awesome. I Jamaat these, this format is usually very informal, actually. Like, we just want to hear your whole like life story from working your first job to how you found it FCO. I know, You’ve had a lot of like, experiences. And I put that in quotes walking in house, it led you to found your own agency. So he really wants to hear the stories.


Those are the things that I think he wants to hear more than anything else, because we’ve talked about the personality bore for the wider audience who will be listening to this episode. So they feel like okay, I’m not the only one who has gone through all these microaggressions and all this crazy stuff, and then found your company, at least letting other black people know that it can be done that, okay, I can walk in, I can walk in SEO, I can hold on a job, I can move up. And at some point, I can run an agency on my own. It’s a dream and it’s achievable. So no pressure, but share your story.


Jamar Ramos 1:47

No pressure at all, no pressure at all. So to start off, all of this shit I have is an accident. Like I’m not supposed to be a digital marketing. I went to college and got my degree in creative writing, because I wanted to write the next great American novel. I unfortunately graduated at a time when writing became democratised. When you could do your own freelance writing, you could publish on Amazon, in what’s called a vanity press.


So you could write your own book, edit it, put it out there, sell it yourself. So the demand for real writers as some people would call them became null and void. So I figured you know what if I want to actually live pay rent, eat, I should get a real big boy job. And so I started looking around and eat five months after graduating, still nothing still working at the shoe store that I was at making minimum wage check to check and all that. Finally, I found a company who was looking for

Chima Mmeje 2:52

a shoe company go skip that. Yeah, talk about that.

Jamar Ramos 2:57

That was bullshit. Oh my god, that was I worked in the warehouse. So I was just stocking the shoes. And occasionally when it would get busy, they’d asked me to go out on the floor. Y’all take care of your feet. Take care of your feet. Because if someone is helping you put your shoes on and everything I don’t like the crusty noroeste feet and like the toes all put together and like oh, it’s just, I mean, triggering but it was it was one of those things where it’s like, it helped me every time I have a bad client.


I think you know what, I’m not looking at their f**ing busted ass feet, though. So it’s all good. But it helped me get through college. And it was again I was there for six, seven years. So it taught me okay, you know what? This too shall pass every day. How do I get through this day? How do I get through? You know this helping this person? How do I deal with their bullshit that don’t me they had a bad day someone yelled at them.


So now they’re yelling at me. Okay, how do I take that anger, that energy and redirect it still help them and then when they’re gone? Go back into the back room and motherf*** them? Because that’s the thing you can’t be mad at clients. Do not do it to their face. Wait until you’re off the screen. Don’t pull the Jamar because I’ve actually bullshit clients right to their face in the call. What we’ll get to there but there’s a great story that I have about that but every job can teach you something. The shoe store taught me get through it just get through the day.


But the best thing was quitting that motherf**ing job when I got my degree but quitting my job when I got my degree also f*** me up because again, out of work for a while but When I finally found something I saw job posting that said, Hey, we’re looking for people who can do SEO, I can write content and edit. I could write content I can edit. I had never heard of SEO before. There’s no SEO courses at my college.


There was you know, marketing, not even digital marketing, just old school, Mad Men suit and tie drinking at 5am to 5pm. B and misogynistic and smoking in the office and giving yourself and everybody lung cancer as marketing. So I googled SEO. It’s like, okay, search engine optimization. Cool.


Still don’t know what the f** that is. So digging deeper, okay, what is it? Okay, how surfacing websites Yatta Yatta, yatta just enough information so I can go in there, and I can leave 90% on. I’m a great writer. I’m a great editor. This SEO thing you guys teach me? But I got all this shit over here. No one can do this the way that I can. This thing, you know, fill my brain with all the knowledge. But look over here. Don’t look at what I can do.


Look at what I can do. Jedi mind trick them into give me that job. Making 45,000 a year, which doesn’t seem like much, but to me, I was making you know, 10 $12 an hour. So $45,000 a year I’m I’m Scrooge McDuck, swimming through my coins, just having fun and everything. But that Job was really hard to do because my boss was he thought he was the only one who knew how to write. Everything had to be well, you know, if I wrote it, it would be like this or I think you should write it like this.


Never looking to find my voice, always looking to bring his voice out in my writing and then punishing me when I couldn’t write like him. Lesson number two, never ever, ever tried to write like anyone else. You will fail. They won’t love you anyway. And then you’ll be gone. For years. I tried to write like Shakespeare Raymond Carver Haruki Murakami. No. When I started writing like myself, doors blew open. Oh my god, Jamar Nolan writes like you will? Yes, because I’m one of one.


You guys are ones of ones. Right? Like yourselves, always produce the work that you can produce. If someone says, oh, well, I would have done it like that. Gladly hand them the assignment. You say? Well, you f***ing do it then. And let’s see what you produce. And if they say, Oh, well, I don’t have the time then say they didn’t take what I produce, because you asked me to do it.


And I did it my way. I followed your instructions. Did all the key words did the writing to the editing produced it? Just because it doesn’t sound like you does not make good? Which with all the head nods I’m pretty sure you guys have heard some of that. Do it my way I want it to be this way. I see a lot of those smiles and ride nods and everything. Yeah, those people are bullshit. And they’re trying to lead you down the wrong path.


Always blaze your own path. Take in some lessons from other people. But just because someone gives you feedback doesn’t mean you have to take it. You can listen, you can accept it always say thank you, though. Because there is there’s a grace in good feedback. People are showing themselves they are putting themselves out there when they give you feedback. I’m pretty sure later on you guys, but the coach more that was great and everything.


You know, that’s good feedback, or hey, you know, I wish you had cuss so much. That’s good feedback, too. I can take it in. I probably won’t stop cussing. But you know, but always listen there is that. So when you guys are giving feedback as well. Have you guys you know guys done editing given feedback, say, hey, you know, this could be better or you should work on this or this was great. That feels when you’re given that feedback.


You guys feel a little bit like scared, right? You don’t know how someone’s going to accept it. Remember that feeling when someone else is giving you feedback? Always say thank you always say, hey, you know, I’ll take that under advisement. You’re promising just to listen to their feedback. You’re never promising to do it because sometimes.


Case in point, I was in a writing class, I had someone on a 10 page manuscript I had written each page. This is boring. This is boring. This is boring. This is boring. That’s feedback. That’s editing. I took that manuscript throw it right in the trash. I can’t work with this is boring. You can’t work with right like me. That’s not good enough feedback. So we’ll move on to that job. That job kept giving me bullshit feedback kept right like this, right like that.


The most successful things I ever did in that job or when I didn’t listen to do it like this. So it was a job where it was a lead generation company where I worked To the education vertical. So when for profit education centres were big in the United States, this company would work with them.


So places like Concordia, University of Phoenix, if you’ve ever heard of that places where they would charge you exorbitant sums, I promise you that if you got a degree from there, they would get you a job. But once you got the degree from there, there was no job waiting for you, they would not help you.


So all they were there just to take your money. I didn’t realise that. That’s what it is. But that’s what I was doing for people was getting people who probably couldn’t afford to go to this college, getting them to this college, and then screwing them over by giving them the information to go to this college.


The one thing that we did was, we were all general, this writing this information about, hey, if you go to this school and take these courses, this is what you’ll expect. I don’t know this shit, because I’ve never been a phlebotomist. I’ve never taken these courses that are on there. So my idea was, hey, why don’t we find people, educators, Dean’s admissions officers, ask them questions, interview them, do write up some of the interviews, put the audio out there, make it into a podcast, do something where we’re getting actual experts to help us create content to distribute that content that’s more helpful.


I was told, Oh, we did that before it didn’t work. The interviewer wasn’t that good. And I’m like, That’s great. Except I’m good. I’m good at interviewing. I’m the person who’s going to do it. Still told no. So I grabbed a couple of my co workers, we did it off the books ourselves, gave them the audio, the write ups all of a sudden was Oh, my God, this is a great idea. Let’s do this for all of our websites. Lesson three, never take no for an answer. If you know that yes, is the right answer. If you’re working with a client, and they say, Well, I don’t really want to do that strategy.


It’s your job to show them this is the strategy that you want. Because all of these other strategies that we’ve been working on, don’t work, or the ones that you were doing before you hired me to work on this website, haven’t worked. I know this strategy will work. I’ve done the research. I’ve got your comp set that says they’re doing it. They’re not doing it as well as we could, but they’re doing it again, just because someone says no doesn’t mean that’s the right answer.


If you know that the answer is the right answer. Yes. Is the right answer. Get them to that. Yes. So after working there for about two years, they had massive layoffs. And I got caught up in that. And they did that whole Oh, you know, it’s not you. It’s me the whole breakup thing. And I’m like, Well, if it was not me, you wouldn’t be breaking up with me. But good story, bro. So less, they’re gotten to an E commerce company that did on demand printing.


So went from big agency style to back to in house, which is great. Instead of working on a bunch of different websites and doing a bunch of different things. I was working on one website, one company, which you would think of going from 10s, hundreds of websites to one website easier.


No. Because with in house, sometimes you get fewer things done, because there’s more stakeholders. For one thing, too many cooks one pot. So everyone has a bunch of projects that they want to get done. So it’s a fight, to say, hey, my project is just as important. And going back to me not knowing what SEO was when I got out of college. Some of these people when you’re working in house with them, they’re working in different areas.


You got to work with engineers, you’ve got to work with developers, you’ve got to work with different people in different departments. They know SEO, they’ve heard about it. They know it falls under the marketing department. But what does it actually do? It’s the man behind the curtain, doing magic tricks. It’s Harry Potter, saying Alex Zahn with this magic wand and making shit happen. So not only when you’re in house, is your job to do the job.


Your job is to also educate people. Next lesson, always be training not just for yourself, but for everyone around you. Never expect that everyone knows what you know about SEO, or even gives a damn. Because when they come into the job, they’re worried about the projects they have to get done. Whether they have the time whether their boss is breathing down their necks or not. So if you’ve got to get their help with something, educate them on why it’s important.


Hey, I’ve got this thing I need help with getting all of these updated pieces of content on these landings. pages now I know you’re under the gun. But if we can get this done, this will bring the website up, it will lift it, it will bring in more revenue. And you and I working on this project, we can present it to the bosses together, and it will make us both look good. You’ve told them what you need. You told them why it’s important.


You’ve told them how it will benefit them. Always be training everyone around you and what you need from them, they’re more likely to help you. Especially if they understand the importance to you the importance to the company. Otherwise, their projects always come in. And that’s why SEO gets devalued because people don’t understand what it is. And some of us I know you follow some people on Twitter, some of us are really, really terrible at explaining what it is.


We get caught up in the cult of personality. We get caught up in I’m smarter than you we get caught up in well, actually. There’s no well actually, if you just train the people, Hey, I found this new study. I’ve got this new information. This is why it’s important. This is how it’s going to benefit you. I got it. I’m now educated. I’m now trained on this. So in house, it’s cool. Making even more money $52,000 A year Oh shit, I went from rich to richer, oh my god parties everywhere.


I can go on vacations I can save. But again, running into problems. So the CEO of this company, big racist piece of sh**. I’m, I like to wear hats. And so the way I wear my baseball caps is I have the brim a little bit tilted to the side. Nothing anything more than my head’s a bit misshapen. And it’s the best way that it fits on the top of my head. I’m in the bathroom, he walks in, sees the way that my head is, looks at me and says oh Jamar, you look like a fake gangster.


And I say, Well, Mr. CEO, gangsters, don’t go to college and get degrees, I got a f***ing degree. That was pretty much the end of our cordial relationship there. And a couple months later, he found a reason to let me go even though I had taken over the social media department running that and from when I took it over to when they finally let me go, was able to increase organic social media revenue by 220%.


That’s not someone you fire unless you are racist piece of shit. And you don’t like the fact that they defend themselves when you’re a big racist piece of shit in the bathroom. Of all the places to not be a racist piece of shit. The bathroom should be a safe space for us all. That’s God’s room. That’s where we do our business.


Leave me the f*** alone in the bathroom. But I digress. So left there. One of my friends who I worked with at the first job, hit me up and said, Hey, I need you to be my assistant SEO manager. I said, I’m probably done with SEO, I’d like to do anything else. He asked me again. I said no. He asked me three more times. I said no. Three more times. He hit me up and said, Hey, I’ve got this customer success role in the company. Then I said, that sounds boring.


My speed is nowhere near SEO. Let’s talk about that job. So I went in, talk to him interview, interviewed with the CEO of the company, she looks at my resume and says, Oh, you’ve got a lot of SEO experience a lot of content experience a lot of social media experience, why aren’t you applying for this other job? And I said, I really don’t want it. I’ve been in SEO too long.


I don’t want to do it anymore. Please don’t make me do it. She legitimately looked at me and said, I’m quoting. I don’t care what you want. I want you for this role. I couldn’t argue back because I had never had someone just basically say I don’t care what you want. They displayed that they didn’t care what I want, but never did they actually say the words directly to my face. So you know, both flabbergasted.


So interviewed with a bunch of other people left that day because I was gonna go whitewater rafting that weekend, get a call, Hey, you’ve got the job. And my friend Ben says into the phone what they’re going to pay me and let me tell you. I had the slight buzzing in my ear. And I had to have him repeated a couple of times because I’m like, no, no, we just left the interview. And I said I wanted this amount.


And this is a little bit more than that. And he’s like, Yeah, I know. You know, I talked to some people and got you more I was like, Okay, keep repeating it. $80,000 show. Again, I feel so rich. I feel so rich. Next lesson, just because they’re willing to pay you a lot of money doesn’t mean they’re going to treat you well. The amount of money that accompany a client a business will pay you is not indicative of the fact that they respect you.


Always remember that demand your money demand top dollar, always be looking and raising your prices. But never, ever, ever think that that person paying you that amount will respect you. They will always treat you like shit. They will always think that you are their slave. Always push back. And if they say, Oh, well, I’m paying you X. Always push back and say you didn’t buy me. You’re paying for my expertise which you are renting. At any point.


You can tell them to f*** off. That’s your power. They’re your client. They have the privilege of working with you of getting your knowledge of getting your years of experience of doing this. Don’t you ever let them disrespect you for that. And my career. I let too many people do that for far too long.


This last job within the first three months, me and my boy we’re rolling we’ve got the SEO team fixed up. I’m helping with doing local SEO I’m helping on the content side, dabbling a little bit in paid marketing, dabbling in email marketing, dabbling in content marketing for the company. I also start getting phone calls with at risk clients. First three months I save us a quarter of a million dollars in clients trying to leave getting on the phone talk to them. Hey, baby, I’m so sorry. Oh, wait while you’re there, baby. Oh, come on, baby.


Don’t be mad at me. I won’t cheat on you no more. I’m so sorry, baby. Oh, don’t take it. I’m a new man, baby. We knew it’s gonna be different this time. Six months in. I’m so stressed out. I’ve got I’m going to work. I’m getting into the office at seven in the morning. I’m leaving at about five, getting to the gym for an hour, getting back home. And then I’m back in meetings, nine till midnight, nine to one nine till 2am. This starts taking its toll on my mental and physical health.


I break out in a rash on my chest, on my back down my neck down my arms. My ex wife thought it was shingles. So, go to the doctor. Doctor looks at me and says something you never want the doctor to say. I don’t know what that is. And I’m like, Well, Doctor, you’ve had years of training. So make some shit up. Doctor sends me to his wife who’s a dermatologist. She repeats the words. I don’t know what that is. And I say I’ll f***ing like that answer.


They give me topical steroids which thankfully even though they didn’t know what the hell the rash was cleared it up. But I realise they may not know what the rash is, but I know what caused it. This job. So my boy and I start thinking like okay, are we going to leave? What are we doing? He ends up leaving two days before my birthday in 2019. I two days later go on my birthday vacation my first full day.


I fly out to Austin, Texas on a Thursday Friday morning, me and my friend. I’m a big university of Texas Longhorns fans were walking to the University of Texas Longhorn store to go get me some gear to give me a hat. Give me a shirt. Pretend like I graduated from there. So full people. Lea Longhorns morons. We’re halfway to the store.


When my boss calls me, I’m on vacation, y’all. She calls me asking about some workship I retort, is there no one who’s not on vacation? Who’s in the office who can give you this information? And she says no, you’re the only one I trust. Next lesson. Do not let anyone interrupt your vacation. You’re not a boss.


That work will be there when you get back. Or if you have good co workers. It won’t be because they will have taken it over and taken it to the finish line. Do not interrupt your vacation. Don’t work on your vacation. Don’t answer the phone. Don’t answer slack. No zooms no emails, nothing your time. When you take that vacation is your time you’ve earned it. You get to use it. And if you’re somewhere that doesn’t respect that, start beefing up your resume to f** out of there, because that’s not a healthy place for you. These are all lessons, I had to learn the hard, hard, hard way.


So I finally get to the point, I come back from that vacation. And at the job, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday comes up. When I’m back on my vacation, I’m sitting out at lunch with two of my co workers. I’m just in a mind fog. I’m just looking around just kind of eating my food, just not really paying attention. And all of a sudden, I have this epiphany. And I look at my co workers and I go, You know what? F**ing quitting today.


So I walk to my desk, type up a letter of resignation. my letter of resignation 30 days I’m gone. All of a sudden, everyone knows my f**ing name. Oh, my God. Jamar, what’s going on? Can we talk what’s going on? Let’s go out to lunch. Let’s see what’s the problem is it should not take someone quitting. For them to become important.


They are important because they are at the job doing the job. If you’re at a place that doesn’t care about you, and to you let them know that you’re quitting, don’t let them talk to you in this day, because it’s not going to change. Again, let’s stay because I’ve made that you can learn from I got talked into staying, I stayed for a little bit longer, nothing can changed. So finally, I had to take a day off to get some work done because my team didn’t do their job. So I took a Monday work from home day, we had 100 Plus clients on a social media account.


I did content for a full month for all 100 Plus clients myself. Go into work the next day. I’m in trouble. Because the CEO didn’t see me at my desk. So I’m not working. Except I’ve got f**ing receipts that say that I did the work that the people that you hired to help me do the work didn’t do. So I say no, I’m not in trouble. I don’t f***ing work here no more. Here’s my computer. Here’s my badge. Oh, Jim, are you sure? You Oh, look at this face.


Yes, I’m very sure. walked out the front door. I left y’all. I’ve never been happier. Never. Nothing in my life has made me as happy. As finally leaving that job. I legit put my headphones on. I danced all the way to the train station. I danced in my seat on the train. I dance from getting off the train to my apartment.


That’s how happy I was people stare at me. I didn’t care. Let’s go. Let’s go. Let’s dance. So get my boy up who was my manager? They’re just saying, Hey, I know you doing certain? Let me just work for you a little bit as I’m getting on my feet. He’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is what we talked about. Just because I started this doesn’t mean you’re part of it. So brings me on to the company that I’m in right now as a full fledged partner.


We had a third partner who he he liked to yell a lot. Even though he wasn’t really doing a lot for the company. So me and my homie Jack, we bought him out. And we continue this thing on our own brought in a different third partner. And I’m happy with where I am. But I’ve had to learn some hard lessons about also dealing with clients of building up your own business. Starting your own agency is not as hard as you may think it is. But it is difficult.


There’s many, many, many different things that you’ve got to do that you may not know you’ve got to do. Back to the story I promised you earlier. So we had a client before British client. They seem to think that they could just talk to us any kind of way. And it kept getting annoying, but I’m like, okay, you know what, let’s just let it go, whatever. So finally, we get to the point where I’m getting ready to shut down the content service arm of our business because we just can’t keep up.


I can’t find anyone to truly help me run it very well as I’m trying to run other parts of the business and build us up. And so pitch to my partners, hey, yes, this is going to cost us a little money in the short term. But in the long term, I can make it up by bringing in more clients by doing my own other responsibilities that have fallen by the wayside as I’m trying to keep this service going. Y’all cool with that? Cool.


So we get on the horn, we’ve got at this point, four or five contact clients. So I’m getting on the meetings, talk to them, Hey, this is what we’re doing. This is why we’re shutting it down. This is what we can still do for you to finish up what we’re doing. For other five clients, good meetings, little hurt, but they understand.


This last client just starts raising his voice and yelling. I’m just like, man, like, this is what we’re doing. And at one point, he says, Well, I think we should just cancel this f**ing meeting now. And I was like, Alright, cool. And I exited out the meeting. He proceeds to sit in the next 10 minutes. Motherf**ing me to my employees. Oh, I can’t believe he exited. And I that’s just so rude. It’s like, well, motherf**er.


You told me you wanted to end the meeting. Like what did you expect? I was gonna sit here stare at your pretty face like now, I’ve got other shit to do. I was in the wrong though. Still in the wrong. Just because the client is treating you like shit doesn’t give you the right to treat them like shit. Plus, I’ve learned the meaner they are. If you’re calm and nice and rational, it just revs them up even more. And some of that is real juicy to see how they truly act to see what true human beings they are.


How are they going to treat you when you’re just like, you know, I totally understand them. So I Oh, I get it. You’re angry. You know? I’m so sorry that I angered you can let’s talk about that. What is really going on? What do you feel they get so pissed when you call them while they’re yelling? Because they want you to act they want they want that reverberated back to them. Because that and that allows them to get louder because more at you. They just want to get their feelings out.

Be healthy with them. And then when you get off that phone, email slack with your co workers. What

Chima Mmeje 31:55
the f*** was that?

Jamar Ramos 31:57
Did you see that? But it also doesn’t stop the micro aggressions. It also doesn’t stop the racist sh*t. I’ve had clients say some wild foul sh*t. Like one client was talking about how her dog because it was brown. It was one day walking around her house in the dark and everything. She’s like, Oh, I’m so glad that my neighbours didn’t call thick and that it wasn’t an intruder? Why would the neighbours think that your f***ing animal is an intruder? Because it’s dark.


Okay, I hear you. I hear what you’re saying. Or another client, who? It’s clear in my emails, who I am, what my title is what I do for the company. Her first question to me, Oh, well, what do you do? My answer? I’m the f**ing CMO. Who were you? She could ask me that question. Always, always having to defend myself. Always having to prove that I’m not the help. That I am an equal partner. Yes, my two co founders are white.


They don’t outrank me. They don’t know no more than me. They couldn’t have built this business without me. Just because you mister missus client, have a problem with who I am. And what I look like and how I speak does not give you the right to speak to me in that kind of way to treat me like to help to act as if I’m here to do whatever you want. This through line of my career. The second best thing it has given me is the ability to make money, pay off my student loan debt, be able to live a comfortable life, be able to go on vacations take time off.


The single greatest thing that it has done for me, is give me the ability to speak up and defend not only myself, but my people. Not everyone wants this life. And I’m not talking about digital marketing life. I’m talking about defending your people. Not everyone wants that life. Not everyone is built for them.


They shouldn’t be. But some of us have those broad shoulders to make sure that the quiet of us are defended just as vociferously as the loudest of us. If I’ve got to be loud, so that some of y’all don’t have the time I had in digital marketing. you best believe I’m attorney this shit up to 11 you best believe I’m gonna call people out. you best believe I’m gonna keep building new, better shit.


Because we belong. Everyone belongs in digital marketing. Think. And if we don’t see an open door, I’m gonna kick a motherf*** open. I will bust down a window. I will build a fuc*** door. We belong. That’s my story.

Chima Mmeje 35:14
Okay, everybody round of applause for dads that has to do you got the best for last

I’m not, I’m not trying to like to like, just make you feel better right now. But this is the best tech SEO studio. Three months, the absolute best episode like, look, I don’t even know I just need to keep talking. I’m just last week was that one? To see good, man. Thanks. I feel like I know what’s going on just like no, like, nothing I’m standing by right now. That’s how good I feel. Basically, whoo. That was incredible. does. Does anybody have any questions for Java? Nobody has any questions? Okay, cool.


I just want to go back and talk about microaggressions. Because we’ve been we’ve been talking a lot about the SEO about career options. But something that I think we have prepared you guys for going out into the field or going out into careers is that you’re black, or you’re brown skin, and you come from a developing country, you have an accent, you have a different name.


Everybody here has an ethnic name, every single person here has an ethnic name. These are things that will always work against you. Like, I live in the UK, for example. And you will be surprised the the rubbish people have to deal with here when you are black or brown skinned people mispronounce your name.


People don’t want to learn how to pronounce your name. Even if he’s just three words. People want you to shut in your name to two syllables, A, B, C, D, E, F. CJ, they just want the easiest routes. And they always they always they always bring up internationals, they always pick up words about your assets.


They bring up stuff about the food you eat, they just always find a way to peek at something that relates to your culture. And it’s something you have to be prepared for when you walk with white people. So it’s good that it’s just us black and brown skinned people here, but it makes this a safe space.


So I want you to be aware that when you work with white people, you will face microaggressions because even white people with the best intentions can also be racist without even realising it. Why privilege, f**ing privilege. Privilege is blinding. It doesn’t allow them to see even when they are wrong.


And it is so easy. I say this from personal experience to so easy to just want to let it go. So it doesn’t become an issue. But it is your responsibility, not just for your sake, but for the sake of any other coloured person coming behind you to speak up and point out when these situations occur.


So I just want everyone here to, to, to go back and do some reading on microaggressions. Because trust me, it is inevitable, you will face microaggressions as you start to work with white people. And it’s it’s a pity because we need white people. So for clients, we need them to make money. Nothing wrong with that. But we also need to learn how to navigate working with them without losing your personality without losing yourself without getting smaller.


Because that is so easy to that’s so easy to happen. So crazy easy to happen. I come across as so who is arrogant. So who is rude. So people are always careful when you speak to me, like my friends might experience a lot of this stuff or to an extent I don’t experience it because I don’t even give you the room to be an asshole to me like even when you meet me in person.


The asshole is the personality that I present when I’m with white people. And it kind of protects me from all that because they know that okay, this beach is not going to take that shit from you. This bit will f** you up with her mouth alone. So there’s always like that God, but many black people are not like that. They don’t have that confidence.


They just feel like okay, if I make myself smaller, it will pass if I let this go it will pass by you know it doesn’t pass you only keeps getting worse. It will only keep getting worse. That is the theme of microaggressions. It starts at microaggressions and then it becomes full blown racism.


So, everyone, I want you guys to just go back and just do some reading on microaggressions. What are the signs of microaggression? What are some examples of microaggressions? Because, in a way, it’s even worse than when someone is calling you a n***. Because that person is outright racist.


But when you have to start questioning is your head, okay? Is this a racist encounter? You just have to be racist, or do you have to start wanting it’s like a replay your brain, it’s even more maddening. But when you have the information, then you know how to deal with this in the moment as it’s happened. So I’m really grateful to Jamal, for talking about this for sharing this examples from his own personal experiences.


So that you can have will I say, seat to his eyes, so you don’t have to go through the same thing. That’s the point of the deck is your story. Learn from people’s mistakes, so you don’t have to make the same mistakes at the core of it. That is why we do this tech SEO story. So Gemma, thank you so much, so much for being vulnerable with us for sharing your stories, making us laugh and for teaching us so much. This has been absolutely incredible. Thank you.

Jamar Ramos 41:08

And of course, of course all y’all I know some of y’all follow me on Twitter. If you’ve got Twitter, follow me. My DMS are open. Always ask questions. I may not be able to help in that moment. But I will always try and find ways to help.

And if I don’t know the information, I know someone who can get you the information. So hit me up again. If we can’t find a door let’s make one together for ourselves and for the future.

Chima Mmeje 41:33
A grid grid and with this we come to the end of season one of the tech SEO story

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